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Post by hughey on May 5, 2017 17:30:46 GMT -6
Hi all,
I am a newbie here, and fairly new into the pottery world. I am putting my studio together and am trying to make a kiln purchase that will serve me well for many years. Most of the work I do now is thrown with B Mix 5 or Laguna 617 porcelain and finished with cone 6 glazes. My profiles are suitable for crystalline applications, so I've got that part down. Just need to start working with different clay bodies that will accommodate the higher firing ranges.
My big question is: trying to decide between an L&L EQ2827 or JD2927 JH, price differential of about $1700. I have read many posts here and see that some of you have the JH series kilns, but most have other models not specifically made for crystalline glaze work but modified to handle the wear and tear that these temperatures put on the equipment.
Both of the above models have the L&L quad elements, the EQ2827 has 3" K23 firebrick as opposed to 2 1/2" K25 bricks on the JH model for faster cool down, I would upgrade the EQ2827 thermocouples to S type so that is equal between the two, EQ2827 is rated at 14950 watts, JD2927 at 18039 watts so it also heats up faster. I would add the Vent-Sure system and a Genesis Controler upgrade to either kiln. I do have 240, 3 phase service at my house so that is how the power would be coming into the kiln. (I know that is odd for residential, but I got lucky I guess)
So, do the differences equal the $1700 differential, and will I be kicking myself six months from now by not spending the extra $$ to start with? Faster ramp times and higher wattage are the big differences and not something I could change at a later date. I do plan to go with the stock Kanthal A-1 elements to start with and see how much mileage I can get out of them. APM upgrade is over $1000 for these kilns.
Any advice, recommendations, etc... would be more than greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Paul
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Post by mohawkpiper on May 6, 2017 0:24:45 GMT -6
i dont have and never used the L&Ls so I cant say anything specifically to those...
but have several skutts and the faster the kiln can rise in temp the quicker the elements wear out and the more often we have to replace them.
Id suggest maybe not worrying so much about a quick rate of temp. over time the elements wear and it wont be able to rise as fast and things may change with your glazes due to it, so it might be a good idea to take it slow from the start so that when the elements wear you get consistent results between brand new elements and worn elements.
We do ours i believe about 7 hrs to peak. even though some of our kilns can go much faster with new elements.
I don't use 3 brick, so I don't have any comparison as to pros and cons but get great consistent results with 2.5 so I feel 3" is not necessary.
same goes for vent, never used one, still get good results.
Kanthals are fine I feel unless you are planning on doing reduction or you mind the fact that you have to change them a bit more often. I feel (at least with my own experiences) you get pretty much the same life per dollar amount for kanthals vs apms it's just that you have to replace the kanthals more often which could result in more kiln damage during replacement (and reduction kills the life of the kanthals.)
again, no comparisons to L&Ls but maybe that will help with considerations.
3phase should save you on electricity cost no?
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Post by mohawkpiper on May 6, 2017 0:31:34 GMT -6
oh... the crystalline specific one has the smaller brick is that right? ( i think i misunderstood and took it as the cheaper kiln has the smaller brick) i don't think a fast cool down is necessarily necessary... it can be done both with a slow cool down and a fast cool down. changes will have to be made maybe from one to the other, but if you are new to it and aren't already doing it one way or the other it shouldnt matter to you.
you will learn how to accomodate for whichever rate of cool down you choose and then just stick with it.
and again, i havent used the L&Ls so maybe i just have no idea and the crystalline one really is that much more amazing.
G
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Post by hughey on May 6, 2017 2:48:53 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback Greg. Any insight helps. It's easy to get roped in by the ad hype, but I'm just trying to get the best equipment I can afford so I don't have regrets down the road. My thinking this morning is to go with the 2327 rather than the 2927 and get the JH model. From what I've read, more kiln volume isn't necessarily an asset in crystalline firings and that wouldn't completely blow my savings.
Paul
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Post by mohawkpiper on May 6, 2017 10:36:09 GMT -6
im hoping others will chime in with the L&Ls.
but we started bigger and get a few smaller ones after and looking back kinda wish we got just one more same size or larger (tho we dont have the space for it). we got smaller ones so we could knock out smaller loads quicker, but they really dont fit as much stuff as we thought they would even for a small load, and i feel the smaller they are the more inconsistent they are from load to load and from shelf to shelf in that same load.
after having the smaller ones we now prefer to just use the large one even if the load is light, or just try to do fewer fuller loads.
i think the larger the volume the more consistent the atmosphere is inside.
i guess maybe you should think about whether or not you will be making stuff under deadlines and if you feel you will be doing more and more as time goes on.
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Post by hughey on May 6, 2017 13:20:23 GMT -6
That is definitely food for thought. What model is your larger kiln?
Paul
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Post by hughey on May 6, 2017 13:52:18 GMT -6
thanks again for the feedback.
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Post by mariewright on May 6, 2017 20:15:57 GMT -6
Hi Paul,
I got a Jd2927-jh about a week and a half ago, and I just completed my 5th crystal fire in it. I have been firing a 4.2 cubic foot Paragon Iguana up until now.
So far, I am really impressed with its performance. It has plenty of power - even firing to a peak of 2340 at 120 degrees per hour, it does not slow down - the elements are still clicking on and off. Cones placed at the bottom and middle of the kiln are nearly perfectly equal every time. When I check the firing rate compared to what I programmed, it is right on target every time. I went with the bigger kiln hoping I'll grow into it, and I think I'll be glad of that.
I don't have a lot of experience with this kiln,but i have no buyers remorse at all so far (knock on wood)
Cheers,
Marie
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Post by hughey on May 6, 2017 20:30:57 GMT -6
Thanks Marie. I really appreciate the feedback.
Paul
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Post by mohawkpiper on May 7, 2017 19:44:54 GMT -6
Hi paul, the large one is a skutt km 1027. one medium one is a skitt km 822, the other medium one is anout the same size as the 822, but i sont remeber what brand it is. and then we have a tiny little aim 88d, which we never use.
G
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Post by mohawkpiper on May 7, 2017 23:10:57 GMT -6
oh man so sorry for all the typos. smart phone. our other kiln is a cress, i believe a e23. it was given to us used but in prestine condition. we dont have room for it so it sits outside under a tarp, and i made a plug converter for it so it can plug into either of the skutts receptables and we wheel it in and out when needed.
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fa
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by fa on Jun 7, 2017 9:05:15 GMT -6
I have a tiny Skutt 818 I use for reduction, everything else I do at home is done on an L&L which I'm very happy with, especially since I got a new controller board and I can tell it, "Go to ^9 and then ramp and hold..." instead of thinking, "Gee I wonder what temp ^9 is going to be for this load..."
I run the pottery at TinkerMill, and we just got a Skutt that doesn't have that feature, but it _does_ do 64 segment ramp-holds! It also tells you how much the last firing cost you, which... when I saw how much an 11 hour firing with a full load cost ($2.36!!) I nearly fainted. Here all these years I'd been assuming about $30, because the same-ish kiln, in NYC in the 1970s, cost $6 per firing.
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Post by hughey on Jun 18, 2017 5:03:13 GMT -6
Well, thanks to all who responded. I ended up with the L&L JD230-JH and so far am very happy with it. I decided to go a little smaller because the power to cubic foot ratio was better with the slightly smaller kiln and I figured it would be easier on the kiln to not have to work so hard. I have done two bisque firings, and one glaze firing that was not good because I was in a hurry to get the kiln going before heading off to work at 6:30 am. I knew something was wrong when I got home and the firing had only taken four hours. I mistakenly programmed the fast firing cycle and ended up with a kiln full of dull, half fired pieces. I knocked the flaking glaze off the set of bowls that I made for my chef and reglazed them, (nothing else flaked) reloaded the kiln and refired at the correct speed. I am anxiously awaiting the temp to drop enough to unload this morning, but I've peeked and the bowls look great! Hopefully everything else will, too. I am spending the next few days throwing with new clay and will try a couple of test firings with the crystalline glaze recipes I have gathered. Very exciting. Thanks again, Fara, for your great resources and your kind responses to my questions.
I upgraded the controller to the genesis unit, and really like that feature. Screens are pretty intuitive and I think it will be easy to program the crystalline firing schedules.
Paul
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fa
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by fa on Jun 18, 2017 7:55:40 GMT -6
I love my L&L. There's also a Skutt 1027 at TinkerMill that has 64 segments, and I can't wait to make a piece so big I can use them all.
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Post by mohawkpiper on Jun 18, 2017 12:49:35 GMT -6
i feel that size kiln is really good and a great starting place. I hope you will continue to be happy with it as time goes, and i feel like you will.
just wanted to point out that (and i could be wrong) the power to cubic foot ratio is better as you go smaller because it NEEDS to be. as in the larger kiln whereas it doesnt have a better power to cubic foot ratio because the larger the kiln , the better it holds its heat and it may not necessarily have to work as hard.
solely based off the fact that from experience between 3 different sized kilns, the smaller they go the faster they can reach peak temp, but even with a slower controlled climb so they are all the same.... the smaller the kiln the more often we have to change the elements. and the smaller the kiln is the quicker it drops in temp.
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