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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 12:51:04 GMT -6
Can anyone provide me with opinions on the use of a porcelainous clay body like Laguna's B-mix as opposed to using a true porcelain for crystalline work? Since it seems a bit more throwable and somewhat less inexpensive, I've been using a body very similar to B-mix (New Mexico Clay's CK) and have had reasonably good results, but was wondering if there may be advantages to a true porcelain.
Thanks, Gabriel
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Post by bonnie11 on Jan 4, 2017 13:27:03 GMT -6
Gabriel, In my humble opinion, porcelain is King. Yes ,it's more expensive. The overall quality of the crystals and how smooth you can actually get the surface of the clay body is superior. I spend time in the greenware stage trimming and smoothing the pot. The advantage is you get exactly the shape you want. With b mix,the sand or grog, whatever they're using seems to always make it rough. My porcelain clay body is very white. Once again my humble opinion, the whiter the surface the less influence it will have on the color of the crystals you're going for.
I've been throwing porcelain for 10 years. After you spend some time with it, you'll never go back.
Have fun Russell
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Post by Arnie Benton on Jan 4, 2017 14:02:28 GMT -6
Hi Russell - Welcome to the forum. I did a side by side comparison of a white stoneware and a porcelain - the colors with porcelain were brighter - it's probably mostly the iron in stoneware that makes the difference. I put a coating of a porcelain slip over the stoneware and it looked just like a porcelain piece - that being said, I got used to throwing porcelain clay and actually prefer it for making plates and shallow bowls.
Arnie
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 15:35:29 GMT -6
Thank you, Bonnie and Arnie. There isn't any sand in B-mix or the body I use, they're just generally equal amounts of kaolin, ball clay, feldspar and silica, which according to some is the standard "25-porcelain" mix, though the ball clay prevents translucency and does tend to darken the fired product. Perhaps they are using 200-mesh instead of 320-mesh silica. I have noticed that my body isn't as white as true porcelain, which is typically 50% kaolin to replace the ball clay. But since I'm throwing in the neighborhood of 20" height, it just seemed that the mix I was using is less likely to collapse on me. Perhaps I need to bite the proverbial bullet and spring for a decent porcelain, because I do want that extra brilliance.
Could it be the ball clay that introduces the rough texture? I too smooth my greenware with a polished stone, but that doesn't hold well after the firing, so sometimes I sand the bisque with very find-grit sandpaper.
I think your advice, Arnie, about spraying the surface with a porcelain slip might work for me, but perhaps I will just switch to pure porcelain. That seems to be the consensus so far.
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Post by mohawkpiper on Jan 4, 2017 15:36:47 GMT -6
between my wife and i we use both about equally. bmix comes without grog or sand and that is the version we use. i feel like crystal growth between bmix without grog or sand vs coleman porcelain is pretty much identical, in size and shape and coverage. other porcelains do differ though. i feel like smoothing is not necessary. we do not burnish or smooth. maybe sometimes when we just feel like it but see no difference in outcome. porcelain definitely has brighter colors with many glazes but not all. (lighter and more translucent ones. ) if color matters with the particular glaze we are using we will use porcelain.i prefer bmix because it is easier to work with and dont mind the slightly muddied color of the glazes but will use porcelain when color is a factor. i like that bmix can be dried extremely quick without cracking and can get pieces thrown, trimmed and pretty much bone dry in a day if i have to.
My wife feels the same as Bonnie (errr... Russell?) in that porcelain is true king but will use bmix when throwing larger items or color is not a factor and she does not want the warpage that comes with porcelain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 15:46:26 GMT -6
Thanks Greg. I think I'm getting a feel for the balance —— when to use porcelain for a whiter background, and when B-mix is allowable. I did notice in my recent firings, which were with CuCO3 and MnO2, which produces a nice, light aqua green, that up around the rim of the vase, where the glaze flowed rather thin, that it had a heavier cream color hue under it.
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Post by adammacmillan on Jan 4, 2017 15:52:30 GMT -6
I've used both, but mostly a custom porcelain these days. I think the answer here is highly dependant on the porcelain body. I had different results with the laguna cone 10 porcelain than with my current porcelain. Using a porcelain slip over the bmix is a good way to get the best of both worlds.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 16:00:18 GMT -6
Yes, that seems logical, Adam. Is your porcelain your own formulation, or do you purchase it pre-mixed? I bought 20Kg of halloysite kaolin from New Zealand a while back, the same that is used in Southern Ice. I was intending to formulate my own, super-white porcelain, since I live in the northeastern New Mexico desert, 40-miles from the nearest town, and 350-miles from my supplier, but haven't yet gotten to it.
Arnie, do you apply your slip on bisque or green? I haven't done much of it, and usually it is in the form of a stained slip I fire on to bisque at Bill Schran's recommended ^03.
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Post by Arnie Benton on Jan 4, 2017 17:07:11 GMT -6
I brush the slip on bisque and refire it. But some crystalline glazers do single firing, so maybe it's not necessary to refire -
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gczop
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Post by gczop on Jan 6, 2017 13:00:20 GMT -6
Hi Gabriel, I use B mix 10, B mix wood, 550 and 570 generally to cone 10 flat and beyond. Here B mix 10 fires with flaws. B mix wood doesn't but warps drying ( the others don't here). I prefer 550 and 570 but in my experience they don't throw as well as either B-mix. The 550 I am finishing now is too soft and "drains" on larger throwing attempts. Have been experimenting with a 550 slip over B-mix. Cheers, Gordon
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 13:11:09 GMT -6
Thanks Gordon. Wish I were more versed on those clay bodies. I never even knew there were two versions of B-mix, and I'm not familiar with the other ones you mentioned; 550 and 570.
I actually don't use B-mix any longer, but rather a body from New Mexico Clay called CK-mix (which the owner/manufacturer humorously refers to as "Calvin Kline"), which is based on B-mix but I think is much more throwable. I've had very little cracking with it and I'm able to routinely pull 19"+ vessels up with it — probably not a great accomplishment for the more experienced folk here, but for me it is.
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Post by tileman2 on Jan 6, 2017 19:03:31 GMT -6
Gabriel:
An easy way to address this problem is to make a slip out of porcelain body that you like; works well for you. Just cut 2-3lbs off, and slurry it down to a slip viscosity. The COE differences between B-mix and most porcelains are not that great. Any white body stoneware has a fair amount of kaolinitic ball clay, and often times EPK. Run a test on a simple cylinder; see if it works for you.
Tom
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 21:14:26 GMT -6
Thanks Tom. I like that kind of advice; succinct but detailed enough that my dyslexic brain can get hold of it. I assume it is applied to bisque . . . or green?
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Post by tileman2 on Jan 7, 2017 7:15:32 GMT -6
Gabriel:
I prefer greenware; I think it bonds better, and it is one less step in the firing process. But like all things ceramics; potters do what works for them.
Tom
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gczop
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Post by gczop on Jan 7, 2017 10:53:25 GMT -6
Thanks Gordon. Wish I were more versed on those clay bodies. I never even knew there were two versions of B-mix, and I'm not familiar with the other ones you mentioned; 550 and 570. I actually don't use B-mix any longer, but rather a body from New Mexico Clay called CK-mix (which the owner/manufacturer humorously refers to as "Calvin Kline"), which is based on B-mix but I think is much more throwable. I've had very little cracking with it and I'm able to routinely pull 19"+ vessels up with it — probably not a great accomplishment for the more experienced folk here, but for me it is. Gabriel, Thanks for the tip about CK-mix (that height is well beyond my capabilities). Laguna 550 and 570 are porcelains. Cheers, Gordon
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